:-)

[Charlie1965]

Evolution is very logical and not difficult to understand. You don't need to be an expert . Just listen to your biology teacher. To make it easier to understand, i will use some facts that are not controversial at all.: 1 Our bodies (and all living creatures) are built up by cells. 2 The cells contain DNA molecules that build up our genes. 3 Genes are unique for every living creature (exception are twins that grew from the same egg of the female) 4. The genes we get depend on what genes our parents had, but we will never get exactly the same genes as out parent. 5 Different gens means we are not same and we can impossibly be equally adapted to life. Some our better at running, some better at thinking, some better at something else.
These differences is what evolution work with. It is maybe not important if we have curly or straight hair, but in a world where an animal needs to hunt to get food and flee to not be eaten, it is very important to be smart, or if not smart than be able to run very fast. This is what evolution works with. Natural selection is not something that a god is choosing. Simply, the best ones survive and spread their genes to the next generation. It is very logical and it is not difficult to understand at all. Best regards: Charlie :-)

[المهاجر إلى ربه]

the noble quran
http://www.alazhr.com/okdown1/en_quran.pdf

[ابن السنة]

Dear Charlie
Yes I guess most people here understand Evolution and its mechanisms

Mutation and Natural Selection

But I am still not an expert, it is not my field of research. So thats why I said that I prefer that some of the brothers here who are specialized in biology would discuss it with you
Because If I discussed it with you I may not be very precise in the terminology

Lets separate between that it is easy and that it actually happened

Well since you agreed with us about the methodology I mentioned, then we can move and discuss something much more basic than evolution and how life started on earth
Lets start by discussing how this all began.
I hope that people with the knowledge here would join us

[Charlie1965]

I checked the site a little. But I am more interested to know what is the text at the picture of Rome. Could you translate to me? Also the text at the flags, please....
#

[Charlie1965]

Ok..... You tell me... How did it all start? What do you think? Someone said let is start? I don't think so... :-)

[ابن السنة]

Dear Charlie,
Please visit this link: http://www.jaafaridris.com/English/Books.htm
and read some of the articles there
I recommend this:

The Contemporary Physicists and God's Existence
The Attributes of God, an Islamic point of view
http://www.jaafaridris.com/English/Articles/creator.htm
The author has a complete book about physics and the existence of God, However it is in Arabic
The first article is just a very rough summary of the book

After reading the articles , you would have an idea of how we think
At least you would understand our point of view and why do we believe in a Creator in the 21th century

[Charlie1965]

Dear....ehm.... Mr...
I have lots of links to send to you too. It is very boring to chat by sending links. If you need support by other writers, than maybe I am not the right person to chat with. I prefer an open debate where we both need to think and make up our own questions and answers. That is developing. Funny I often get links when I try to chat with Muslims. Why? Are you guys not feeling sure in yourself to run an own debate and tell me your own opinion? Why always asking for supports by websites? Best regards from Charlie

[أحمد فتحي الموحد]

so charlie how can we descuss something that collapse from the first step: the formation of the first cell (amyba) the evolution theory is a dead doctrine, She appeared in a period when science was still under-developed when the cell is shown under the primary microscope like asimple bubble, but when science has developed we discoverer a lot of intersting things, the cell was considered as a big spacial ship, with millions of particles that are working with a very miraculous armony, and you try to convice us that the evolution is the explication of all this!! you have to pursue the last experience



read this:
Morowitz’s probability calculation

The probability calculations cited above are in agreement with a calculation by the biophysicist Harold Morowitz. He assumed he had broken all the chemical bonds in the E. coli bacterium and released all the atoms comprising it, and then calculated the probability of these atoms spontaneously recombining to give rise to the E. coli once again. In this theoretical experiment, all the atoms required are present in all the appropriate quantities, and it is assumed that no other atom can become involved from the outside. Nonetheless, he calculated that the chances of all the atoms coming together spontaneously in a specific order, despite their being in the appropriate numbers and in an appropriate environment, in such a way as to produce an E. coli bacterium was 1 in 10100,000,000,000.[3]This goes far beyond being merely impossible. Such a number reveals the impossibility of even the least complex organism in the universe forming by chance, even if all the conditions and materials are brought together. ,

[أحمد فتحي الموحد]

by the way sorry for not presented myself iam ahhmed fathy mouwahhid

[ابن السنة]

Dear....ehm.... Mr...
I have lots of links to send to you too. It is very boring to chat by sending links. If you need support by other writers, than maybe I am not the right person to chat with. I prefer an open debate where we both need to think and make up our own questions and answers. That is developing. Funny I often get links when I try to chat with Muslims. Why? Are you guys not feeling sure in yourself to run an own debate and tell me your own opinion? Why always asking for supports by websites? Best regards from Charlie

Charlie , I requested from you to read the links because I wanted to build a common ground for both of us.
In my opinion this would reduce the time of discussions.

If you don't like that ok lets start
What is the cause of the universe? I mean how did it come to exist?
I say: A creator since this is the only logical solution
All possible soutions are:
1- It is everlasting and eternal
2- It was found from nothing
3- It was found by a cause

Do you have any other opinion?

[ابن السنة]

Charlie, Do you prefer to talk with Brother Ahmed about the theory of Evolution and then we can talk about the creation and how it come into existence?

[Charlie1965]

Hi Ahmed,
Nice to meet you. Well, I see no reason why we should stop the discussion. I just presume that you would not like if i start bombing you with different links that will talk instead of me. Saying this, I think you understand why I don't like to get links myself(except for some special occasions)
#So let's go to the subject. You blame evolution being something invented by undeveloped science. This is a very interesting argument. Darwin's theory was presented some 150 years ago. Quran was written some 1400 years ago! This is the reason why Mohammad (or whoever wrote it) did not write about the evolution, if you let me be a bit sarcastic ;-) But, regardless to that Darwinism is not something that modern science denies. It confirms it! Darwin did not know anything about genetics. Modern science found support in Darwin's teaching right there in the genetics. It explains how natural selection and the evolution works. Darwinism is today being teched and studied in the top universities of the world, like Cambridge or Oxford! Which modern university will deny evolution, except for maybe some that are strictly in the hands of religious teaching? This is the way Islamic teaching works. If they find something that science supports, than they will say "Look, here we have evidence that Quran is a wholly book" If science finds something that is on the contrary of what Quran says, than they simply denies it by saying it is not true. That is not a serious way of debating, but a desperate way of protecting the religion which can not be true. If someone told you that moderns science denies evolution,, than he lie to you. It is a complete lie. You can check it if you really want. Funny world we live in... You don't need a microscope to get a good idea. But sometimes the microscope will confirm the idea. So it was in Darwin s case. Best regards from Charlie

[Charlie1965]

Hi... yes i can talk to Brother Ahmed about the evolution and with you Brother... ehm.... about creation. You can tell me how can someone create a whole world from nothing? Would be very interesting to know Best regards, Charlie

[ابن السنة]

Hi... yes i can talk to Brother Ahmed about the evolution and with you Brother... ehm.... about creation. You can tell me how can someone create a whole world from nothing? Would be very interesting to know Best regards, Charlie

Sorry Charlie My name is Ibn Alsunnah
Well before telling you my arguments, plz tell me what do you think is the probable answer first
1-Created from Nothing
2- Some cause created it
3- Eternal
4-Others
Best Regards
ibn alsunnah

[أحمد فتحي الموحد]

yeah charlie, your right, but still missing the target, i dont speak about religion here, even if iam a religious individual, i speak about logic, you steel cant give me the answer for this : how can we can discuss about a doctrine denied by many many scientist in the world?? i admit that she's the single theory explaining the apparition of life in earth i admid it... but i ask you why such a theory has borned dead still considered as the single answer of all question about the begining of life (the complex systeme can not be maked by randoomnes and coincidense) sorry for bothering you but this is 2 facts:

evolution is the single theory accepted in the big and great university around the world F/R : RIGHT

evolution can not give or at least remains and still remain unable to give an answer for the beginning of life, the harmony in the nature, ect....ect..... F/R : RIGHT!!!

from ahmed