Question about cost of apostasy

**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 04:10 AM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة أميمة مشاهدة المشاركة

Of course you can ask question , but you try to tell that this is not fair as you think so, can you answer my question about contract betwen you and any bank or company, as they tell you : if you agree about our conditions we can make contract,then after agreement ,you tried to refuse what you agreed and say this is not fair, this is the reason I asked you if you really accepted rules of Islame as long as you say that you are muslem because this means acceptance of all rules , when you decided to be muslem

If I'm a Muslimah I should accept all rules of Islam definitely; I'm not denying this. I asked question because I do ''not'' know either it's an obligation/copmulsory to kill an apostate or not. Because different people/Muslims say different things. And I want answer from someone to prove his/her arguments by giving any reference from Islamic history or Hadith but they just talk without giving me any reference. So how can I acknowledge? Should not I say I don't know & should not I ask about it?

**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 04:25 AM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة واسطة العقد مشاهدة المشاركة

A translation for the 3# and 2# replies
About apostasy, it's a divine punishment authenticated by Hadith from the prophet - pace be upon him - " kill who change his religion -Islam-". This doesn't contrast with the verse " There is no compulsion in religion" becouse the verse means not to force people to become muslims... this is the most that we can get from the verse. However, stating that one will leave Islam is a betrayal to God and his prophet. So its not the same with a Kafir who didnt become muslim, The Kafir who didnt become muslim will not be forced to do so. The verse says next "Truth stands out clear from Error" the truth is clear, we dont have to force people to embrace it. But who was a muslim and then betrayed God by apostasy, God has punished him to protect the muslim community from that so it wont be Fetna -strife- for others. God says in the holy Quraan "The strife is worse than murder" to strife people form the religion is worst than murder.. And it is a protecion for that individual too, because he will think a thousand times before doing that and will rethink many times so he will be close to actual repent. But this punishment - apostasy- is not an immediate punishment, it differs for each one. He will be convinced to the truth by evidenecs before that and will be given all the kinds of evidences and proofs. If he insisted on the Kofir he will be killed.. assuming that there will be a debated that he will not be convinced is a false assuming because the truth and its evidences are clear, what might happen is stubbornness and arrogance.
For example: America or any country dont force people to have its citizenship, but once someone have it he will be required to several things, so if he betrayal the country he will be killed or he will lose his citizenship as punishment. Therfore, there is no analogy between entering a religion and leaving it.

Ok. Thanks. I have understood.
About apostasy, it's a divine punishment authenticated by Hadith from the prophet - pace be upon him - " kill who change his relgion Islam
But one Muslim scholar quote a Hadith form Abu Daod 38:4345 to prove killing an apostate is not copmulsory he said Prophet Muhammad left an apostate without killing. What do you say about this Hadith??

**lightline** · 12-22-2012, 08:21 AM

sister The Punishment for Apostasy is killing not because we want him return to Islam
its because he committed the worst sin in Islam which is infidelity
as Muslims we all agree whoever commits adultery his/her Punishment is killing also the magician or the witch NOT the illusionist I mean a real magician who does black magic or whatever to harm people his/her Punishment will be killing also the murderer his Punishment is killing as well as the spy his/her Punishment is execution

Therefore all of them we agree that their Punishment is execution however their crimes are not worse than apostasy

so sister what do you think will be the Punishment for apostasy ? since its worse than adultery and spys who betrayed their own country and murdering and magic

**أبو القـاسم** · 12-22-2012, 09:15 AM

All scolars of Islam judge by killing a person who committed kofr but after enough discussion with him, according to the hadith of Bukhari whish is autheticated 100% .regarding what u have said , it means that Profet

might leave some cases becuse He has the right to forgive people who curse him for instance ,while we dont have this right

**أميمة** · 12-22-2012, 10:37 AM

Reference

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**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 10:41 AM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة أبو القـاسم مشاهدة المشاركة

.regarding what u have said , it means that Profet

might leave some cases becuse He has the right to forgive people who curse him for instance ,while we dont have this right

What wre the causes? We will do the same as Prophet peace b upon him did , willn't we??

**أميمة** · 12-22-2012, 11:52 AM

Hadith form Abu Daod 38:4345 to prove killing an apostate is not copmulsory he said Prophet Muhammad left an apostate without killing.
this is a wrong reference , did you find it yourself ?can you give the right one

**أميمة** · 12-22-2012, 12:06 PM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Maria al-Qibtiyya مشاهدة المشاركة

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahe wa barakatu!

As we know the cost of apostasy is death penalty. I want to know, is it obligatory to put to death an apostate? There is verse in Qur'an which states ''There's no compulsion in religion'' . And in case, a learned Muslim is supposed to discuss or debate on religion & wants to try to get the truth, but in the end he may decide t
o apostatize, may find Islam illogical; would it be an obligation to kill him still if there's no any compulsion in religion i.e Islam?

[LEFT](would it be an obligation to kill him still if there's no any compulsion
in religion i.e Islam?)
Do you still believe that this is not fair? If not please confirm that
Also please answer my question about contract

**أبو القـاسم** · 12-22-2012, 01:38 PM

What wre the causes? We will do the same as Prophet peace b upon him did , willn't we??

Listen my sister Mariya, we have very clear Hadith as mensioned previously , when some one curses Messenger peace be upon him ,then it's His own right to forgive him according to his estimation( if He is stil alive)...you can forgive any one if he attacks u , but u dont have the right to forgive him if he attacks me for example ,,so how about Profet peace be upon him?! we are commanded in religion to follow his orders ..not to follow what we like
Almighty Allah said : (It is not for a believing man or a believing woman when Allah and his messenger have decided a matter, that they should have any choice about thier affair .And whoever disobays Allah and his Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error ) that was a valuble translation for the general meaning of the verse (Al Munta AL Islami eddition) ..may Allah guide us and you to obey Allah SW immediately

**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 05:16 PM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة أميمة مشاهدة المشاركة

[LEFT]
(would it be an obligation to kill him still if there's no any compulsion
in religion i.e Islam?)
Do you still believe that this is not fair? If not please confirm that

No . Now I get as someone told me there is no any copmulsion in religion for non-Muslims & if a Muslim commit any crime he/she would be treated under Islamic lwas whether this crime is adultary or bibery or apostasy or any crime.
but I'm still not clear eihther it' an obligation or not to kill an apostate or not. I mean to say I'm not ckear if an apostate leave unkilled it would be a sin or not.

**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 05:19 PM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة أميمة مشاهدة المشاركة

Hadith form Abu Daod 38:4345 to prove killing an apostate is not copmulsory he said Prophet Muhammad left an apostate without killing.
this is a wrong reference , did you find it yourself ?can you give the right one

wait sis I try to post the whole Hadith.

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 12-22-2012, 06:00 PM

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

before killing an apostate he will be asked to repent and if so he won't be killed but if he insisted to be an apostate he would be killed

**أميمة** · 12-22-2012, 06:11 PM

As was sent to you by Abu Alkasem bother above :All scolars of Islam judge by killing a person who committed kofr but after enough discussion with him, according to the hadith of Bukhari whish is autheticated 100% . Also ref. which I enclosed above is very clear, Iwould like to tell you as well that Muslem have to accept all the rules of Islam, as we strongly belive that Almighty ALAH is Fair in His judgment
"إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَظْلِمُ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ وَإِن تَكُ حَسَنَةً يُضَاعِفْهَا

وَيُؤْتِ مِن لَّدُنْهُ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا"

"ALLAH CAUSES NOT ANY INJUSTICE, EVEN TO THE SLIGHTEST EXTENT.

IF A GOOD DEED IS DONE, ALLAH WILL DOUBLE ITS MERIT,

AND HE WILL GIVE OF HIS OWN A GREAT REWARD."

the Holy Quran in Surah 4: Ayah 40 ,.
Muslem does not deal with ALLAH as he deals with humans ,we do not have the wrigt to discuse our Cretor
Surah 112: Ayahs 1-4:

قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ

"SAY HE IS ALLAH THE ONE, ALLAH NEEDED BY ALL

HE BEGETS NOT NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN

AND THERE IS NONE THE LIKE OF HIM."

**Maria al-Qibtiyya** · 12-22-2012, 07:48 PM

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة أميمة مشاهدة المشاركة

Hadith form Abu Daod 38:4345 to prove killing an apostate is not copmulsory he said Prophet Muhammad left an apostate without killing.
this is a wrong reference , did you find it yourself ?can you give the right one

I didn't find the reference myself . I just listen to the lecture of that Islamic scholar. Now I too dont find it.

**واسطة العقد** · 12-22-2012, 07:52 PM

whats your first language ?

Question about cost of apostasy

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