:-)

What question did I not reply, Ahmed? 0

Hi Ahmed
I am not escaping from any questions, but some I don't understand. Neither you or me have English as our mother language, so we have to be patient with each other. 0

By the way, why did God make Quran only in Arab and not in English or Chinese? At the time of Mohammad world was still very big and for example native people in America or Australia (for example) had no chance to read it. Did they end in hell because of this? Not really fair in that case. He should have sent Quran to every continent at least ;-) 0

I checked the link you sent me. What exactly did you want me to see in the link? A cat fish that did not change for 50 millions of years? This is not against evolution. Evolution is not a god that is necessarily changing the species. This fish obviously did not need to change. It worked anyway. It was not put to any hard challange by any outer factor. It is not strange that we find most of such species in the sea, where conditions did not change that fast and that hard, like they did on land. 0

Feel free to ask more. I am always glad if I can explain things to you or anyone else, as far as I can. Best regards from Charlie

sorry about this, can not by helped, if you can't understand my question.....

now you start to eskape from my requested question....

but however theres the links:



you can take a look there

theres more and more but that will be fine

Hi Ibn Alsunnah

I appreciate your try to simplify the debate, but I still see it got stuck here. Ok, if we talk about C1, C2 C3 as a purely imaginary chain of cause and the effects, than maybe you are right and you want me to just look at it that way (to not involve god or creation at this stage), although you talk about universe and it's cause. Since you talk about it than you already involved it, so don't expect me to play games. We talk about universe and I don't know if this logic can be applied on it. If Einstein is correct that the energy can not be gained or lost and that talks against your point of view. But, I don't want to stop you from going further in this discussion, so I say... ok.... Let's say you are right. There is a cause. So, feel free to go further with this and let's see where we will end up. 0

Best regards from Charlie

Hi Ahmed,

Sometimes I don't understand your questions and just skip them. Sorry for that. This is because I have so many things to reply every day so I don't have time enough. Than I skip those that I don't understand and hope they will be repeated in some other way. 0

About the flying insects and the dinos. Please feel free to send me the link that you talk about. Sometimes it is necessary and I think in this case it is. Than I will probably understand the problem- o

About the dinosaurs and the birds. I did not check the exact time of the periods when the dinos and the birds appeared, but I have no reason to mistrust the years 80 and 150 miion of years ago, that you talk about. However i don't see a problem here either. You say "most of the birds" appear at that time, which means (and it is also true) that there were birds before that. The similar construction only means they very likely have the same relative, I say "very likely" because there is something called "convergent evolution". This means two species having similar look because they live in similar way, like swifts and swallows. They are not close related, but both spend most of the time flying (swift almost all the time) and hunting insects. This goes hand in hand and therefore they look similar. This comment should be considered as a side note, because in case of dinosaurs walking on the ground and birds that most of them are flying this can not be the case. There way of living is very different. The similarity in their construction is a sign of same origins. 0
Best regards from Charlie

Hi Ashbely

Your comparing between a broken antenna and a dead person maybe sounds like a good compare, to compare a living creature with a technical product is quite irrelevant. You can not (yet) make a transplantation of a human brain and even if you could, that person would be another person, because our mind is in the brain. 0
#
About life after death. True... I can not be 100 sure, but somewhere around 99% or so. Why? Because if it is like you said that maybe we even lived before, but don't remember it. What could be the meaning of such reborn life? That is equal like someone die and another person being born. That is why I have no reason to believe in that. 0

You say God decides of who will be born. Does he do that only for humans, or even for every microbe and every insect? What a huge job... Maybe it is not so strange he does not have time to make a world better if he is doing that all days long :-P

And you say why are not black child being born by white parents and the opposite. What kind of question is that? This is basic in Evolution that kids get many of their parents abilities. The don't just have same color, but also similar look and similar abilities. But never exactly the same persons. This is what natural selection uses. The small differences. There is nothing in Darwinism that says two black parents will have a white child sometimes! That would be completely against the teaching. We are talking pure Darwinism here.0

#The reason why you are born one year and not another. What is that? It makes no sense and you sound quite confused there. If it is because problems with the language, than I hope someone can help to make me understand. Don't judge my mind as weak. I think with my own brain and I am in the minority no matter where in the world I am. I hope you understand that it takes some kind of strength to be in that position and not just follow what your own parents and the society you live in says. You may call me stupid, if you think so, but than you have to try talking smarter than me. But don't call me weak. 0

Next thing: If you really mean that you don't want to live if life has no higher meaning, than I don't want to debate with you anymore. I don't want to open your eyes and make you become suicide, or loose the lust to live. I don't want to have you at my conscience. I really mean it. So if you really mean that, than we stop here and I let you live in your fantasy. I really don't care about that, but it is a big shame that so many people preferto live that way. 0

Best regards from Charlie

Simply if the causes can go up to infinity, then our existence condition will never be satisfied right
?
Because for us to be here, our universe should exist but our universe depends on its cause
In another word if this cause,C1, didn't exist then our universe will not exist and we will not exist
But for the cause of our universe,C1, to exist its cause (C2) has to exist
But for C2 to exist C3 should exist
But for C3 to exist C4 should exist
and so on
so our condition of existence will never be satisfied because it depends on an infinite chain of sequential events
This would lead to a paradox
We exist but an infinite chain of causes and effects says that we shouldn't
Therefore, An infinite chain of causes and effects cannot be true
Do you agree then that this chain of causes cannot be infinite
?
Please don't think of the nature of the causes, they are just "conditions which should be verified so that its effect takes place

Best Regards
Ibn Alsunnah

Hi Ibn Alsunnah

I will take your last message before the others, because it seems very important to you in our mutual debate. I take the other messages later. 0
Well, the problem in any case is that I don't know the answer at your question. I can think "yes", or think "no" but what would it mean when I don't know? If you know than please explain how it is and why it is that way.0

Best regards from Charlie

i think you haven't understood my question, theres a cause for evolusion on "evolution theory", like the flying of dino.

like the theory says: theres two theorys or "causes" what i mean is the cause in the case of insects, knowing that the fossil records deny any transformation, i dont want

to put some liknks here because you dont like links, so let's get it here




you haven't reply to that?.... i wait for it

ahmed

Hi Ahmed

I have no upperlook (as you said). Maybe I feel upperlook when talking about evolution against creation, but this is because I feel so sure about what I talk. As human being, or in any other way, I don't feel that upperlook, but I respect you as all other people. Without the respect, there is no way to have a good conversation. The reason why I explained the symbols " " is simply because you really seemed to not have understood how I used the word "invented" 0

Back to the topic. I still don't understand why do you see it as a problem that insects did fly before flying reptiles and birds? 0 Evolution is not like a straight line where some abilities that are "invented" necessarily have to appear at the most advanced species. If we look at the evolution and the species it would more look like a huge tree, where each leaf presents a species that is a alive today. The branches can show their way of evolution and two leafs near each other would be closer related than those at distant branches. The higher evaluated species are closer to the top of the tree, and more simple species lower. But there is nothing that says that a "leaf at the bottom of the tree can not have wings", but only the one near the top. Or, did I misunderstand your question? 0#
Bets regards from Charlie, I work on with other questions, as soon as i get time. 0

Dear Charlie,

No I am not asking what caused the universe to exist. I mean it is not the intend of our discussion to explore the properties of such matter, Was it Energy, Was it elementary particles, Was it a material which we never investigate
All this is not important
What is important that there is a cause which caused the universe to exist
Lets assume that its name is C1

Dear Charlie
I am not against science so you don't have to defend the status of science


About the dialogue between the Muslim and the Atheist, this is not related to the origin of the universe,as you said the muslim is asking about the origin of life and we are not talking about that right now


I feel that everything converges to the same question

This is my only question Charlie, I don't care the "nature" of this cause which originated our universe.

Thank you
Ibn Alsunnah

Hi Ibn Alsunnah

Looks like we are getting stuck with the logical thinking with what comes before Cn... the reason is that we can not know what happened before BB. Was there a universe before it, or did it all start there? If we look at the cosmic egg (as some call the thing that exploded at B we don't know what it really contained. The only thing that we know that can contain so much materia at one single place is a black hole. However this must have been a really huge one, if it was a black hole. But the problem here is that we don't know any way for a black hole to explode. This is beyond what science knows today. We know conditions in a black hole are extreme. Even the electrons and protons are crushed and the density can maybe be unlimited. Maybe when a black hole grows to this enormous dimension like the cosmic egg was, maybe there is a way for it to explode. Probably the conditions are extreme, even compared to ordinary sized black holes. This is of course just a speculation and so far impossible to test
This can sound like a weakness of science, but in fact it is it's strength. The science have no pressure to have all the answers, but accepts the facts that are proven. Darwinism is not a theory anymore, although many try to use this word, that has been used initially, even by Darwin himself

Back to the discussion between a fahter and a son. Did you think discussion between a Muslim and an Atheist could sound like this: 0
Muslim: Who created the life? 0
Atheist: It was not created. It evaluated from simple life to more complex.
Muslim: I can not see that
Atheist: Of course you can not see, because it goes to slowly to be seen in real time, but evolution had billions of years time to work since the earths "birth" 0

I am sure you would understand that... or am I wrong? A boy would understand that and so would my son. 0

Now I will continue with other mails and come back to other of your messages. Sorry I am delayed, but there is a lot to answer.

Best regards from Charlie :-) 0#

dear charlie

sorry to tell u this message

i should to stop here

for many reasons

my brothers will continue with u

i hope you know the truth

your friend ashbely

the Hadith ( sayings of the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ) of the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him in other way to be more understood




the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him says;

When doomsday comes, if someone has a palm shoot in his hand , he should plant it.

other Hadith:
he says:
“There is none amongst the believers who plants a tree, or sows a seed, and then a bird, or a person, or an animal eats thereof, but it is regarded as having given a charitable gift [for which there is great recompense].” [Al-Bukhari, III:513].


also


There is no one among the believers who plants a tree, or sows a seed, and then a bird, or a person, or an animal eats thereof, but it is regarded as having given a charitable gift [for which there is great recompense]. (Hadith)

you said

if my life is without meaning the life is without meaning this is the truth

help people today tomorow they will day like me what is the benefits to help thim if there is any benefits like a money or interests why i will help thim

but in religion we help thim even god for give us for god make us in heven

but without religion and holy goals i will not help any body i will be like shark or snik

you said friend we must to fight for enviroment ????

we know that after millions year the sun will bomb and collapse the solar system

so if there is not any meaning from this life so let me interesting and i don't care by the next generation the important thing is myself only
this is the case of athiest

but in islam prophet mohammed ( peace up on to him) said

if you life in the last day and see the doomsday coming don't let the farm the earth
he said you must to learn from cradle to grave


with my best regards

your friend ###############ashbely########