:-)

you said

yessssss because nothing can know my personality

my dad and my mom get a married and have a baby

but they know who i'm ???????

they know my software ( soul) in this hardware ( body)

i can to beget a child has black skin or white
i will get married from black girl or white

but can i know her or his personality i can't and you can't and every human can't do that

if we are a intelligence creatures can't know this personality of that human

how can the chance know that

and you know the chance is less intelligence than human ????????????

you said

yes you don't understand because your mind is weak and this equation is far and a far than the mind ability .

the different between i was born in this year or that year is maybe i didn't exist is not born anyway
why i'm born who know me who know my personality

the chance i don't think so , i'm sure the chance don't know what is the chance


to be cont...........

hi dear charlie
you said

you don't see because you can't imagine so you can't think about the live after death because your mind and my mind and all minds of people weak can't imagine that like the eyes is weak can't see the cell or see the far star and galaxy unless we use the telescope or microscope .

you said

are you sure that there is not a live before we born ?????\

maybe we were a live but we cant remember because the brain and destroyed so the memory distroyed this is what the buddism say

u can not prove in any way that there is not a life before we born and you cannot prove in anyway that there is not a life after death

so don't say i'm sure 100% there is not a god or life after death

you said

when the antenna is damaged , thats mean the radio or tv or any data wave is damaged and gone forever !!!!

this is the first time i know that

to be cont...........

Dear Charlie
Don't hurry in answering my question
Just go and have some sleep and think of it deeply tomorrow morning
Think of everything and see if the logic flows or not
What is important for me that you get convinced
And I hope you would put aside your emotional ideas and pre assumptions
That is why I tried to my best to put aside any emotional evidence during the discussion

Ibn Alsunnah

3rd: this theory have more probleme than that, for exemple, history: the claimed ancetor of birds ( imean, the dino. that have the similars propretises "superficially" with the present bird, appered before 80 to 85 Millions years ago, and the most old bird until now appears before 150 millions years ago?!

ahmed

"", "i know what you mean dont overestimate yourself ...friend..., i feel some "upperlook here

dont wast your time to teach me the meaning of symbols...ok..?

when i talk about insect... i talk about your theory evolution: you say that dinosaurs evolved into birds, by two way (evolution theory):

# 1--- : cursial theory: that the dino make a simple decision, is to run with high speed to fly from earth to sky.... (denied by a couple of darwinist [U]evolusionists[/U, cuz is more insean that we can imagine...] )

# 2---: arboreal theor : that the dino. jumps from an branch to other branch,why... to catch flies... and with that the dino. evolved their ability and..then we have the creature named bird...

so, my question here, its about the second theory, how flies acquired the (evolved) the systeme of flying before dyno.

like i said i wait a response from you


ahmed

Hi Charlie
I am sorry that you lost what you wrote previously
I know it is frustrating
My whole point about understanding and visualizing is that not every understandable point is visualized
A simpler example infinity

About the question Who created God, I told you that you may not appreciate the answer at this point
To answer this :
I didn't claim that God created himself or that he came out of nothing
We need to proceed with our original discussion


A quick comment on
What about these rules themselves
?
You think that if we believe in a creator this means that we refuse the cause and effect principle
?
and this is completely wrong
That is what we are proving right now

The important point is
1- "Eternal" as a concept is not rejected
2-
Best Regards
Ibn Alsunnah

Hi Ahmed, I used the words "invented" with the signs " before and after it. It means I don't mean literally that someone invented it. I just used the word to simplify the language. I thought everyone understood that, but i was obviously wrong.0

About the flying insects. I don't understand what is the problem. No one ever claimed that it should not be that way. Many species of animals "invented" - you see the signs?- the ability to fly independent from the other group. Bats also fly and they did not origin from birds at all. 0
Would be nice if someone of the other Muslims here would help me to reply some messages that even a Muslim see that they are wrong, like this with "invented". Some kind person could have helped and explained to you Ahmed what symbols "" mean. I would have appreciated that.0
Best regards from Charlie

The question
Who Created God
?
Muslim: God is the Creator and the creator cannot be created so the question is wrong
You: Wait here I will say the same about the universe. The universe cannot be created and the question is wrong
Muslim: No Because the universe is not a creator. If you think that the universe is a creator then please point to this ability in the universe to create
The universe according to atheists is just matter and energy and everything is controlled by physical laws
So can these rules create themselves\
?

Why can not a creator be created? How can something exist if it is not created? You talk about creator that must be a lot more advanced than anything in the universe and you say he just appeared from nothing!? 0
Ok. if I buy your explenation that such an advanced creature can exist without being created than it is far more easy to understand that the material can exist without creation. We have the evidence that is exists even, but we have no evidence that would make it even likely that God exists.
You ask about the ability of the universe to create. I just say Evolution. I also say chemical processes. I also say radioactivity. I say nuclear reactions. They all go on out there and here on eart. Why? Can you even imagine anything existing without any rules? I mean anything... sand in the dessert, air, or water.... or sounds, or whatever you want. Can it exist without any rules at all? It is not even possible to imagine that it can. And since we have something than it follows the natural rules, and by the time organize itself without any God steering it. 0 If you accept this than you took a first step to understand that material can organize by itself without any god and you took a first step to understand how universe works. No need to complicate things with a God.
And finally why are you asking me if natural laws can create themselves? Why are you not asking if God can create himself or create natural laws? Be critical to yourself when making a question. Best regards from Charlie#

HI again Ibn Alsunnah,

My head is heavy and I am getting tired, but it is difficult to stop this intresting debate. Damn, the stupid internet had an error ans I lost the message that was almost finnished... so i have to rewrite it :-( o
Anyway, I will just concentrate on few things here and skip the topics where I feel we are stuck. 0
Time is usually being considered as a 4th dimension by the way. Than it is easy to understand it.0
Energy in the cable is everywhere in it, but only when when the power is switched on. It is like a river that is moving. but the material itself is not moving in the cable. It is a wave of electrons going through the material that usually is copper or aluminium. I am not a physician to give you a nicer explanation. What was your pint here? 0 I will continue in next message because I need to copy some of your text and last time I did it, i lost the whole message. I don't want to risk it again.... to be continued... o

a little point here: when i say insane (the evolution) i say it because i cant believe in randoomness and coinsidence, like you when you dont believe in god (same idea), is not because i'am religious, but open-minded... so....sorry,

*when i say; that "thing" is denied by scientist i dont say 100% of them deny it.. so let's make it clair... ok?

let's go back...ok, and when i say that : evolution can not and well not give us the answer of the formation of a single protein by chance you reject it!, so why, you still talking about it, like we took an book, and we go trrought the final chapter trying to understand the whol hystory!! so, i think, you must think about it,

invented? how invent here, the creature, the evolution process, how is the inventor here?

so.. can you answer me, how can flies, or what ever you want from insect have the great systeme of flying, before
the dinausors have it..

i wait your answer...


ahmed

Hi again Ibn Alsunnah,0
To put your question in some other way, you ask me if there is eternity. Am I right? Due to Einstein and the energy that can not be lost or gained, I have to admit that maybe eternity is possible. But, I can not be sure. We are talking about a cosmological problem at the edge of what science knows today. I would not claim that I have a good answer here. I am not sure. If you are, and can show it, than you should be working at NASA ;-) o Best regards from Charlie :-) o

Hi Mr.... long mail... Please guys make it a habit to sign your messages so I know who I speak to. I know you see your names in Arab letters, but I don't see that. I will understand while reading who it is, but please make it easier for me. 0

Back to the message. Wow... so long... I hope I can reply a bit shorter ;-) o
Well I am sure, if there was one single evidence that God existed, than it would have been shown everywhere and to everyone. I would not need to read what all believers did write. And an evidence would convince something very close to 100% of the population (there are even people who don't believe that humans landed on the moon and people who believe Elvis is alive, so maybe we would not reach 100% anyway) That is why I am sure there can not be any evidence. I would win a bet, right? 0 On the contrary there are evidences that Evolution works. We use it to change species by ourselves. We don't need God to do it for us. The main reason why some people still believe in God is that they simply want to do it. It is a nicer idea. 0
About the son and the book and God and the world. It is not that I don't believe in God because I did not see him creating the world. I did not see my mother give me a birth, but I believe she did because it is VERY likely. I did not see Napoleon loose the battle at Waterloo, but I believe it because it is likely that he did. I did not see Pluto but I believe it exists out there. It is VERY likely id does. But the idea of God is only likely if you choose to believe what you want to believe in. God is not likely. He is extremely unlikely and therefore I need a better "evidence" than "How can something exist if not created by a God?" I know evolution works while religion says, everything was created by god and Animals did not evaluate, but were created as they are. This is wrong . What else do you need to hear? 0
#As I told before. If religions would include evolution in the creation and say "God stated it all and started the evolution of species", than it would be more difficult for me or anyone else to debate against such religion. But religion does not say that. It says God created the species as they are right now. If holy books are wrong, than they are not holy at all. 0
You claim that creation of species is POSSIBLE. Well, that is maybe possible for science in the future. But for a single force that needs to be created by itself and create complete world with millions of species + everything else, that is EXTREMELY IMPOSSIBLE. We haven't seen anyone do that and we will never see it either. It simply does not make sense if you are honest to yourself. 0
About Darwin. I will try make it even shorter than your reply. It is not just not important in what he believed. It is not even important if he ever so said "I was wrong", which he of course never did. He showed us the idea how species evaluate and that can not be taken back, not even by him. Because we see the evidences in real. He is not a prophet whose words we blindly trust in. He is a human who showed us the way to the water in the dessert. If he denies it later, the water will still be there. Evolution is not accepted because " a prophet said it exists", but because we know it works in real. We use its principals to change the species. We follow the evolution throughout the past of the earth, by looking and fossils and we the genetics has shown why it works.0
What I meant by comparing Darwin's work with Quran is that Darwin's work would have been done by someone else if he was not born while Quran or Bible if you want so, would never been written if Mohammad or Jesus never were born (whoever wrote the book itself). You can ignore this comment, because this is just my opinion that I impossibly can prove.0
#About Oxford. I did not show you the site as an evidence that Darwinism is correct. I showed it because some people here deny that science admits Darwin's teaching. That was a good way to show those claims are false. Only that. Don't blame me for replying in a best way for a false statement that others do here. The site is not an Evidence for evolution, but an evidence for the scientific view at that topic.0
Evolution could be included in the religion, but the problem is that it is not! Any religion that would include all modern scientific discoveries would be difficult to debate agains. But the false facts in religios teaching makes it difficult for you guys to defend it. This is a reply to your claim about the surgery and the fortune. I already talked about this, so I will not prolong it.0
To my son... you know how I will prove him if he is too stupid to believe in something that is very likely? I would do the same thing with the book some other day in the same situation and record everything with a hidden video camera. Than I show him the movie. Is that good enough, or is he so stupid to not believe in what he sees? o
If he still does not believe, than I should send him to a doctor I think ;-) 0

Finally, I understand you can not reply every day. We all have our lives to live beside this forum. But see how I have. I have now 4-5 people writing quite long or sometimes very long messages. It is tiering, but also very interesting. I try my best. It takes a lot of my time, but I enjoy it. I have full respect that you can not be here all the time and I hope you all understand me if I am sometimes slow to reply, or some day do not reply at all. Best regards from Charlie :-) 0

HI again Ashbely,

Who let you alive? What do you mean with that? Who has to let you alive? Who let alive every microbe, or every insect at the world? You think there is a God deciding about who will be born and who not? What a huge job to decide about everyone of the billions and billions of insects. Is he sitting there thinking for each case,... shall this bug have babies? Ok... I let him get them today... How many.. I give him 256.... "Next one please". Very fun....
Why are you not born some other year? Another fun question. Because you are born in the year...maybe 2004, because you think like a child sometimes...hehehe. But I don't understand what difference it would make if you were born another year... 0
You say you don't want to live if your life has no meaning. I want. We have to find a meaning and I feel sorry for people who can not find a meaning by themselves. Get a hobby or something. Try to learn about real world. Try to help people around you to have a happier life. Fight for human rights. Fight to protect the environment so that your children will live in a better world. There are so many ways to find happiness. Buddhist say that real happiness is when you learn how to be happy by helping others. I am not a Buddhist, but I like that idea. There are nice things in Islam too and other religions aswell. Life is very exciting. Find a challenge that will inspire you. If really religion is your only inspiration to live, than you have problems that day when you realize there is no God. Find your strength in real world. It is worth living in reality too :-) 0
I am truly sorry about your brother who died before he was born. Life is not fair. It often strikes against those who least deserve it. In this case a completely innocent child and people like you and your family who I believe did not deserve it either. No one deserves to die. It happens anyway. What is meaning with that? No meaning at all. There is no meaning with life beside life itself. If it works, life goes on. If not, it stops living. No higher power behind that. Best regards from Charlie

I need to make a break here, but I will work on later. Thanks for your questions and for reading my messages. Talk to you later guys. Best regards from Charlie :-) o.#

Hi again Mr Ashbely, ( I see you are Mr coin) 0
We think, stones don't. We differ. But what I mean by soul is something that will keep our mids alive after we are dead. I don't see how are mind would live on after death, so I don't believe in soul. Still we think while we are alive. But after we die, we think just as much as we did before we were born. That means we don't think at all. Not so fun maybe, but life is not what we want it to be, but what it is in fact. 0
About Einstein, he said that material is just a form of energy. A huge package of energy. His formula E=mc2 explains the relation between them two, for someone who is better at mathematics than I am ;-) Our minds contain of a huge number of electrical signals in our brain. When it is damaged after we die, you can not restore it. It is gone forever, weather we like it or not. Scary but true. That is why people want to believe in religion. It promises something better than reality does. We are often weak to fall for someone who offers us something better. You are free to choose, but I prefer to live in reality and I hope some of you will have courage to make that choice as well. Best regards from Charlie