هل التوراة والانجيل كلام الله مثل القران تماما ؟

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  • massoud
    عضو
    • Aug 2008
    • 279
    #76
    المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا

    ليست القضية شكي انا فانا على يقين بما جاء في القران من حفظ ودور التواتر في هذا الحفظ لكن اصحاب الكتب السماوية لاتبدوا مسالة التواتر وسيلة قطعية لحفظ كلام الله لأن التاريخ اثبت لهم ان كلام الله الذي انزل على موسى وعيسى لم ينجح التواتر في تبليغه سليما وبالتالي التواتر رهين صدق القائمين عليه من البشر فنظل نبحث عن حجة غير التواتر البشري المعلوم لدي الجميع بخصوص القران الكريم


    المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة massoud مشاهدة المشاركة
    الزميلة أسمحي لي هناك تذبذب واضح في ردودك علي المداخلات !

    إذ كيف تقولي بأن أصحاب الكتب السماوية حفظت كتبهم بالتواتر، ولا خلاف هناك بأن أصل الإنجيل مفقود وما هو موجود اليوم ترجمة نشأت عن مقارنة مجموعة تراجم عن الأصل المفقود من الترجمة السريالية اليونانية العبرية والحبشية وباعتراف المجمعات الكنسية نفسها ، فهناك فترة مفقودة في نقل الإنجيل فكيف يكون هناك تواتر عقلاً في نقل العهد الجديد ، فهذا الكلام غير صحيح أجمالاً وتفصيلاً ؟ ومن يدعي بأن الإنجيل متواتر فليأتي بالدليل المادي ؟


    حسناً طالما أنة ليس لديك طعن أو لبس في وثاقة نقل النص القرآني بالتواتر الثابت كوسيلة مادية ملموسة يمكن رصدها وفهمها عن طريق ما يفهمه البشر إذاً فكيف يمكن أدراك وسيلة حفظ غيبي وغير مدرك تأتي ضمناً لوعد الله له بالحفظ ؟ فالكلام هكذا لا يستوي طالماً أن طريقة الحفظ بالتواتر ثابتة وصحيحة في نقل الكتاب ؟


    الأخت دنيا لم تردي علي مداخلتي ؟
    إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ لَآَيَاتٍ لِأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ* آل عمران: 190
    نحو الأيمان تأملآت في كتاب الله في الكون وفي النفس

      Comment

      • دنيا
        عضو
        • Jan 2010
        • 193
        #77
        حسناً طالما أنة ليس لديك طعن أو لبس في وثاقة نقل النص القرآني بالتواتر الثابت كوسيلة مادية ملموسة يمكن رصدها وفهمها عن طريق ما يفهمه البشر إذاً فكيف يمكن أدراك وسيلة حفظ غيبي وغير مدرك تأتي ضمناً لوعد الله له بالحفظ ؟ فالكلام هكذا لا يستوي طالماً أن طريقة الحفظ بالتواتر ثابتة وصحيحة في نقل الكتاب ؟
        هذا ما سألت عنه منذ البداية .. انت اعدت السؤال لي ... والحال انني ابحث عن اجابة ...فانت اعدت سؤالي وبالتالي لم تات بجديد .
        شكرا

          Comment

          • متروي
            محاور
            • Oct 2007
            • 5604
            #78
            ربما يطرح لدينا الموضوع اشكاليات لا نعيشها في العالم الاسلامي و لا نتصورها لكن اذا تحولت الدعوة الى الاسلام بالاعتماد على هذه الكتب المنقوصة عمدا والعمل على اسلمة اكبر عدد ممكن على اساس كتاب حذفت منه ايات حول المراة والجهاد والحدود وغيرها وتم تصويرها لغير المسلمين على انها مذهب مخالف ورفض المسلمين لها ليس على اساس ان مرجعها منقوص وانما على اساس مذهبي والإستدلال بان اهل السنة لا يقولون بما جاء به الشيعة واهل الشيعة يفسرون الكتاب خلاف ما جاء به مذهب اهل السنة والأحمدية لها راي اخر واليزيدية ... فتم التسويق لهذه العمليات التي يمكن ان نسميها ما نشاء لنتجاوز كلمة التحريف بشكل يجعل من الأخر يقبلها كمذهب مستقل.
            ان لم تري اختي انت والزملاء في هذا المنتدى ان هذا يمثل خطرا على الاسلام او على الأقل صورة الاسلام فتلك مسألة أخرى ... بعيدا عن كل التهم.
            المشكلة انك تظنين ان ما يدعو إليه هؤلاء الافاقون هو الاسلام و هو وهم كبير فهؤلاء الذين دخلوا في دين هذا الكتاب الناقص هم في الحقيقة لم يدخلوا في الاسلام أصلا حتى يكونون خطرا عليه فهم انتقلوا في الواقع من كفر إلى كفر و لا يعنينا ذلك في شيء لا من قريب و لا من بعيد
            - مثلا القادينيين يؤمنون بالقرآن كاملا و هم يعتقدون انه محفوظ بحفظ الله و مع ذلك هم كفار ولا علاقة لهم بالاسلام لا م قريب و لا من بعيد
            - أمة الاسلام في امريكا أخذوا أمورا كثيؤة جدا من الاسلام حتى الحجاب و الاسماء و الصلاة و لكنهم ليسوا مسلمين بأي حال من الأحوال .
            - الاسماعلية و الدروز و ان سماهم الغرب مسلمون او طوائف اسلامية فهم في الحقيقة كفار لا علاقة للإسلام بهم
            - الطائفة الجديدة التي تتكلمين عليها و التي تؤمن بالقرآن المنقوص هم طائفة كفر جديدة لا علاقة لها بالإسلام و لا يقلل من كفرهم ما يؤمنون به جزء او اجزاء
            فالاسلام اختي هداك الله كل لا يتجزأ إما أن تؤمني به كلية أو يطردك كلية و ليس للناس خيار و لا يضر الاسلام كفر من كفر بحيث قد يتوهم البعض ان طرد فرقة كفرية كالقادينية او الطائفة الجديدة التي تتحدثين عنها ينقص من الاسلام او قوة الاسلام او عدد المسلمين فهذا وهم كبير فلا يمن أحد على الله بالاسلام بل الاسلام هو ما جاء به رسول الله و لو كان المؤمن به واحد فقط.
            - فعليك أختي ان تتعلمي العقيدة اولا و بعدها تستطيعين التمييز بين ما ينفع الاسلام و ما يضره.
            إذا كنتَ إمامي فكن أمامي

              Comment

              • massoud
                عضو
                • Aug 2008
                • 279
                #79
                المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا مشاهدة المشاركة
                هذا ما سألت عنه منذ البداية .. انت اعدت السؤال لي ... والحال انني ابحث عن اجابة ...فانت اعدت سؤالي وبالتالي لم تات بجديد .
                شكرا

                الزميلة دنيا لو سمحتي أرجو أعادة التفكير في صياغة منطقية السؤال الذي تم طرحة إذ يبدوا أنكي تدوري في حلقة مفرغة؟ ولم التمس تسلسل بيَن منكي في عملية نقاش المداخلات التي طرحتها ؟

                الكتب السماوية (التوراة والإنجيل) لا توجد طريقة واضحة يثبت بها كيفية نقلها من الصورة الأصلية التي كانت عليها الي البشر اليوم سوي بالإدعاء ؟



                المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا مشاهدة المشاركة
                لاتبدوا مسالة التواتر وسيلة قطعية لحفظ كلام الله لأن التاريخ اثبت لهم ان كلام الله الذي انزل على موسى وعيسى لم ينجح التواتر في تبليغه
                القران توجد طريقة مادية غير مختلف عليها في فهم كيفية نقل الصورة الأصلية التي كان عليها في فترة النبي ؟ ومن لدية طعن في كيفية حفظ القران بالتواتر فليأتي بالدليل والبرهان حتي يكون الحوار واضح ؟


                Last edited by massoud; 02-05-2010, 01:30 PM.
                إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ لَآَيَاتٍ لِأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ* آل عمران: 190
                نحو الأيمان تأملآت في كتاب الله في الكون وفي النفس

                  Comment

                  • دنيا
                    عضو
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 193
                    #80
                    القران توجد طريقة مادية غير مختلف عليها في فهم كيفية نقل الصورة الأصلية التي كان عليها في فترة النبي ؟ ومن لدية طعن في كيفية حفظ القران بالتواتر
                    هذا انتهينا منه ان رايت ان التواتر وحده هو الحافظ فشكرا لقد توصل الاخوة الى هذا وان كنت تعتقد ان هناك طريقة اخرى يمكن تفسيرها لغير المسلم الى جانب التواتر فنحن في انتظارها؟ وهذا هو ملخص كل النقاشات وشكرا؟ ولا تنسى انا وجهت سؤالا وانتظر جوابا فمن راى انه اجاب لا يشغل نفسه بالموضوع ونكون شاكرين له .جازاكم الله خيرا

                      Comment

                      • ماكـولا
                        طالب علوم شرعية
                        • May 2009
                        • 1574
                        #81
                        الأخت دنيا وفقها الله في الدنيا والاخرة

                        يا طيبة الله جل جلاله أنزل الكتب على رسله ليبلغوا من الناس شرائع الله وليوحدوه قال الله " آمن الرسول بما أنزل إليه من ربه والمؤمنون كل آمن بالله وملائكته وكتبه ورسله لا نفرق بين أحد من رسله "

                        ومن الكتب التي أنزلها التوراة والانجيل قال الله" نزل عليك الكتاب بالحق مصدقا لما بين يديه وأنزل التوراة والإنجيل من قبل هدى للناس وأنزل الفرقان إن الذين كفروا بآيات الله لهم عذاب شديد والله عزيز ذو انتقام"

                        وكذا الزبور قال الله " ولقد كتبنا في الزبور من بعد الذكر أن الأرض يرثها عبادي الصالحون"
                        وكذا الصحف " إن هذا لفي الصحف الأولى صحف إبراهيم وموسى "
                        وكتب الله الالواح لموسى بيده "وكتبنا له في الألواح من كل شيء موعظة وتفصيلا لكل شيء فخذها بقوة وأمر قومك يأخذوا بأحسنها سأريكم دار الفاسقين"

                        وأنزل الله القرآن هو مهمين على الكتب السابقة وناسخ لها "

                        وقد توعد بعدم تحريف القرآن خاصة لأنه نزل تحدياُ للعرب خاصة والى كل ملحد مذكب بالقرآن بأن يأتي بمثله
                        قال الله "وَمَا كَانَ هَـذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَى مِن دُونِ اللّهِ وَلَـكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ"
                        وقال الله " وَأَنْزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ "
                        وحفظه من التحريف والتبديل "لا يأتيه الباطل من بين يديه ولا من خلفه"
                        وقال " انان نحن نزلنا الذكر وانا له لحافظون "
                        وفي التحدي قال " قل لئن اجتمعت الإنس والجن على أن يأتوا بمثل هذا القرآن لا يأتون بمثله ولو كان بعضهم لبعض ظهيرا"
                        وقال ايضا " أم يقولون افتراه قل فأتوا بعشر سور مثله مفتريات وادعوا من استطعتم من دون الله إن كنتم صادقين" الى غيرها من الايات
                        وايم الله لو أن احدا كذب او حرف في كلام الله لهيئ له من لو في كان في البحر لركب اليه وفضحه , والدليل على ذلك انه لا يزال بين أيدينا محفوظا , ولا زال التحدي قائما , اما ما حرفوه وابتدعوه من الكتاب المسمى الفرقان فهو قُدّر أن مسيلمة الكذاب خرج اليوم ورآه , لفضل ان يعود الى قبره على ان يرى الكلام البارد الذي أشبع عُجمة وتكلف !

                        اما التوراة والانجيل فلم يعهد الله بحفظها اذ انه غير معجز ولم يتحدى به كالقرآن والدليل قوله تعالى "أفتطمعون أن يؤمنوا لكم وقد كان فريق منهم يسمعون كلام الله ثم يحرفونه من بعد ما عقلوه وهم يعلمون"

                        وقال بعدها بآيات "فويل للذين يكتبون الكتاب بأيديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله ليشتروا به ثمنا قليلا فويل لهم مما كتبت أيديهم وويل لهم مما يكسبون"

                        فمثل هذه الايات وغيرها هي تحدي لكل مغرض وحاقد ان القرآن لم يحرف ولن يحرف الى ان يرفع , واما التوراة والانجيل فيكفي الناظر فيهما ما يجد مما يستحي لو قدر له ان يرقي بهما احد أقاربه , فليقرأ عليه نشيد الأنشاد !!!
                        او يرقيها مما فيها من الامور التي يجزم احدنا انه ما كتبها الا رجل أرعن مغموس في الشهوات
                        والله الهادي
                        وأيُّما جِهَةٍ أعرَضَ اللهُ عَنها ؛ أظلمت أرجاؤها , ودارت بها النُحوس !

                        -ابن القيم-

                          Comment

                          • massoud
                            عضو
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 279
                            #82
                            المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة مسعود
                            القران توجد طريقة مادية غير مختلف عليها في فهم كيفية نقل الصورة الأصلية التي كان عليها في فترة النبي ؟ ومن لدية طعن في كيفية حفظ القران بالتواتر
                            المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا مشاهدة المشاركة
                            هذا انتهينا منه ان رايت ان التواتر وحده هو الحافظ فشكرا لقد توصل الاخوة الى هذا وان كنت تعتقد ان هناك طريقة اخرى يمكن تفسيرها لغير المسلم الى جانب التواتر فنحن في انتظارها؟ وهذا هو ملخص كل النقاشات وشكرا؟ ولا تنسى انا وجهت سؤالا وانتظر جوابا فمن راى انه اجاب لا يشغل نفسه بالموضوع ونكون شاكرين له .جازاكم الله خيرا

                            لا علم لي بشيء لا أعلمة ولا أري ولا أعتقد أن هناك طريقة أوثق في رواية تاريخ ما لأي منطقة أو جماعه من أن تكون متواترة خبراً وكتابتاً نزولاً إلي الحدث نفسه وعلي حد معارف الحضارة الإنسانية في رواية ودراسة التاريخ، طبعاً ويعلوا القران الكريم علي هذا كونه كلام الله الموعود بالحفظ والظاهر تواتره للقياس والفحص ،


                            وأتفهم الآن طلب الأخت دنيا بإضافة دليل أثبات أمر مثبت لا خلاف علية.



                            لتفهم الزميلة مدي الاضطراب والصعوبة في رواية حدث تاريخي غير متواتر في سير الحضارة الانسانية أدعوها لقراءة كتاب البان ويدجري :




                            تحياتي
                            إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ لَآَيَاتٍ لِأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ* آل عمران: 190
                            نحو الأيمان تأملآت في كتاب الله في الكون وفي النفس

                              Comment

                              • سالم
                                عضو
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 652
                                #83
                                إبطال استحالة تحريف الكتاب المقدس - د. منقذ السقار

                                منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
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                                من غرائب الكتاب المقدس التي تدل عل بشريته

                                اكل الخراء / الخرى في (الكتاب المقدس)

                                منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
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                                ليُقبلنى بقبلات فمه / نشيد الأناشيد

                                منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
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                                التوراة كتبت بعد 8 قرون


                                الكتاب المقدس من تاليف شخص بشهادة من الكتاب المقدس نفسه

                                هذا هو الكتاب المقدس

                                سفر المكابيين الثاني 15 : 39-40
                                "فان كنت قد احسنت التاليف واصبت الغرض فذلك ما كنت اتمنى وان كان قد لحقني الوهن والتقصير فاني قد بذلت وسعي . ثم كما ان اشرب الخمر وحدها او شرب الماء وحده مضر وانما تطيب الخمر ممزوجة بالماء وتعقب لذة وطربا كذلك تنميق الكلام على هذا الاسلوب يطرب مسامع مطالعي التاليف"

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                                اخلاق الاله الرب و الانبياء في الكتاب المقدس

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                                الكتاب المقدس هي اتهام السيدة مريم بالزنا مع يوسف النجار

                                https://www.alsrdaab.com/vb//showthread.php?t=46452


                                المسيح عبد و ليس اله من الكتاب المقدس

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                                  Comment

                                  • سالم
                                    عضو
                                    • Dec 2008
                                    • 652
                                    #84
                                    ... (( هناك ما يقارب خمسين الف خطأ... وهي أخطاء قد تسللت في نص الكتاب المقدس...إنها خمسون الف خطأ خطير (؟)... ولكن النص ككل ما زال صحيحاً(!).
                                    ليس لدينا الوقت او المساحة التي نناقش فيها عشرات الآلاف هذه من الأخطاء – الخطيرة أو البسيطة – التي حاول المصححون مراجعتها وتنقيحها . ولكنني في هذا الكتيب سأحاول أن القي نظرة عابرة على درزينة من بعض هذه التحريفات والأخطاء.
                                    1 – (( فلذلك يؤتيكم السيد نفسه آية ها إنا العذراء تحبل وتلد ابناً وتدعو اسمه عمانوئيل)). (نبوءة اشعيا 7:14) . في النصوص المنقحة نجد أن كلمة ((العذراء)) قد استبدلت بلفظ ((صبية)) وهي الترجمة الصحيحة للكلمة العبرية ((الأمه)) فهي الكلمة التي استخدمت دائماً في النص العبري ، وليست كلمة ((بتولة)) التي تعني عذراء . وهذا التصحيح لا يوجد إلا في الترجمة الانجليزية ، لان النصوص المنقحة لا تطبع إلا بهذه اللغة . وبالنسبة للافريقي او العربي او غيرهم من الف وخمسمائة لغة عالمية فما زالوا يقرؤونها (( العذراء)).
                                    مولود لا مخلوق:
                                    ((عيسى هو ابن الله ومولوده الوحيد ، مولود لا مخلوق)) ، وكثيراً ما نجدها في تعاليم الكنيسة الاورثوذكسية ، وهم يتعمدون في ذلك على الآتي:
                                    2- (( لأنه هكذا احب الله العالم حتى أنه بذل ابنه الوحيد لكي لا يهلك كل من يؤمن به لتكون له الحياة الأبدية)). (انجيل يوحنا 3: 16).
                                    ولا يستطيع اي قسيس أن يخطب إلى رواد الكنيسة بدون أن يقولها . ولكنَّ مراجعي الكتاب المقدس استاصلوا هذه الكلمة (بيقوتن) وتعني ((مولود)) بدون أن يقدموا عذراً واحداً . وهذه الكلمة الكافرة هي واحدة من عدة كلمات محرفة في ((الكتاب المقدس)) ، والله بحكمته عارض هذه الأفكار بعد اختراعها ولم ينتظر أَلفيْ عامٍ حتى يكشف العلماء زيفها: (( وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا . لقد جئتم شيئاً إدا . تكاد السموات يتفطرن منه وتنشق الأرض وتخر الجبال هدا ، أن دعوا للرحمن ولدا . وما ينبغي للرحمن أن يتخذ ولدا)) . (مريم 88 – 92).
                                    وعلى العالم الاسلامي ان يهنىء الاثنين والثلاثين عالماً بالإضافة إلى الخمسين طائفة الدينية لتقريبهم الكتاب المقدس لحقيقة القرآن الكريم : ((لم يلد ولم يولد)). (الاخلاص3).
                                    رياضيات النصارى الجديدة:
                                    3 – (( لأن الشهود في السماء ثلاثة ، الأب والكلمة والروح القدس وهؤلاء الثلاثة واحد)). (رسالة يوحنا الأولى 5 : 7) .
                                    وهذه الجملة هي اقرب إلى ما يسميه النصارى بالثالوث المقدس وهو أحد دعائم النصرانية ، ولكنّ مراجعو النصوص المنقحة حذفوا هذه الجملة ايضاً بدون تفسير لتصرفهم هذا . لقد كانت هذه الجملة زيفاً عقائدياً طوال هذه المدة ، وقد ازيلت من النصوص المنقحة المترجمة للغة الانجليزية ، واما عن ال 1499 لغة المتبقية في العالم التي يكتب بها الكتاب المقدس ، فما زال هذا الاعتقاد المزيف موجود بها ، ولن يعرف أصحاب هذه اللغات بالحقيقة حتى يوم الحساب. وعلينا نحن – المسلمين – أن نهنىء هؤلاء المراجعين ثانية لإعترافهم بالحقيقة وتخلصهم من كذبة أخرى في الكتاب المقدس ، مقربين بذلك كتابهم غلى تعاليم الدين الإسلامي فالقرآن الكريم يقول: ((ولا تقولوا ثلاثة انتهوا خيراً لكم إنما الله إله واحد)). (النساء 171) .
                                    صعود المسيح إلى السماء:
                                    إن احد اخطر التحريفات والأخطاء في النصوص المنقحة الذي حاول المراجعون تصحيحه هو صعود المسيح إلى السماء . يوجد إشارتان فقط في بشارات متىّ ومرقس ولوقا ويوحنا القانونية لأهم حدث في التاريخ النصراني ، (صعود المسيح إلى السماء) ، وهاتان الإشارتان كانتا موجودتين في كل كتاب مقدس في كل لغة قبل عام 1952 عند طبع النصوص المنقحة لإول مرة : أ – ((ومن بعد ما كلمهم الرب يسوع إرتفع إلى السماء وجلس على يمين الله)) . (مرقس 16: 19).
                                    ب – ((وفيما هو يباركهم انفرد عنهم وصعد الى السماء)). (لوقا 24: 51).
                                    والآن انظروا غلى ص 28 وهي صورة من صفحة من النصوص المنقحة حيث نجد الجملة (أ) وستندهش حين تعلم أن إنجيل مرقس ، الفصل السادس عشر ينتهي عند السطر الثامن ، وبعد فراغ واسع محرج تظهر السطور المفقودة بحروف صغيرة كهامش في نهاية الصفحة . واذا استطعت الحصول على النصوص المنقحة ، طبعة 1952 فستجد أن السطور الثمانية الأخيرة الموجودة فيها الجملة (ب) ، ((وصعد إلى السماء)) قد استبدلت بإشارة (اه) للهامش في نهاية الصفحة لتجد الكلمات المفقودة ، واي نصراني مستقيم لا يمكن أن يعتبر أي هامش في كتابه المقدس من كلام الله ، فلماذا يضع خدم النصرانية أعظم معجزة في دينهم في هامش متواضع؟ في اللوحة التوضيحية لأصل الكتاب المقدس باللغة الانجليزية ستلاحظ أن كل النصوص المقدسة المطبوعة قبل 1881 كانت تعتمد على المخطوطات القديمة والتي ترجع إلى خمسمائة أو ستمائة سنة بعد عيسى ، ومراجعو النصوص المنقحة كانوا أول علماء رجعوا إلى ((اقدم)) المخطوطات ، والتي ترجع إلى ثلاث أو اربعمائة سنة بعد المسيح . ونحن جميعاً نتفق على انه كلما كانت الوثيقة اقرب إلى المصدر كلما كانت اكثر صحة وبالطبع ((فالأقدم)) تستحق التصديق والاعتماد اكثر من ((القديمة)). وعندما لم يجد المراجعون كلمة واحدة عن ((ارتفع)) أو ((صعد)) إلى السماء ، قاموا بتطهير النصوص من هذه الكلمات عام 1952.
                                    كرنفال الجحش:
                                    إن الحقائق السابقة هي اعترافات مذهلة للنصرانية بأن مؤلفي البشارات القانونية ((الملهمين)) لم يسجلوا كلمة واحدة عن صعود عيسى . ولكنَّ هؤلاء المؤلفين اتفقوا جميعاً في تسجيلهم لواقعة دخول الرب المسيح بيت المقدس على ظهر جحش .
                                    أ – (( واتيا بالأتان والجحش ووضعا ثيابهما عليهما واركباه)) . (متى 21: 7)
                                    ب – ((فاتيا بالجحش الى يسوع وطرح ثيابهما عليه فركب عليه)) . (مرقس 11 : 7).
                                    ج- ((ثم أتيا به إلى يسوع والقيا ثيابهما على الجحش واركبا يسوع)). (لوقا19 : 35).
                                    د – ((وإن يسوع وجد جحشاً فركبه كما هو مكتوب)). (يوحنا 12: 14).
                                    فهل يُعقل أن الله القدير مؤلف هذه الأحداث المتباينة – أن يكلف نفسه لتأكيد عدم نسيان مؤلفي البشارة تسجيل دخول ابنه المدينة المقدسة على ظهر جحش وإلهامهم بعدم تسجيل صعود ابنه إلى السماء على اجنحة الملائكة .
                                    لن يستمر هذا طويلاً:
                                    ولكن إلى ان تأكد المراجعون من زيف هذه المعلومات ، كان ناشرو الكتاب المقدس قد كسبوا ما يقارب 15,000,000 ( خمسة عشر مليون دولار) . وعندما اكتشف بعض المبشرين غياب هذه الأجزاء من طبعة 1952 قلبوا الدنيا ولم يقعدوها إلى أن استطاعوا إقناع طائفتين من الخمسين طائفة بالضغط على دار النشر لإعادة تلك الأجزاء إلى ((كلام الله)) مرة أخرى ، ولذلك ستجد أن كل الطبعات التي نشرت بعد طبعة 1952 قد اعيد إليها ما أزيل من النص .

                                    إنها لعبة قديمة جداً ، واليهود والنصارى كانوا يغيرون ((كتاب الرب)) منذ البداية . والفرق بين محرفي هذا العصر والمحرفين القدامى ، هو ان القدامى لم يعرفوا فن المقدمات والهوامش وإلا لأخبرونا أيضاً وبوضوح بما فعلوه مثلما يفعل ابطال العصر الحديث الذين يضعون الأعذار الواهية لتغييرهم النقود المزيفة إلى قطع ذهبية لامعة .
                                    ((لقد عُرضت أمام اللجنة طلبات عديدة قدمها اثنان من الافراد وطائفتان دينيتان ،وقد اهتمت هذه اللجنة بهذه الطلبات)). ((... ولقد أعيد جزءان إلى النص الأصلي وهما نهاية إنجيل مرقس الفصل السادس عشر (9-20) ... وإنجيل لوقا (24-51)..)) – مقدمة طبعة كولنز ص 6-7).
                                    ولماذا أعيدت ؟ لأنها كانت قد ازيلت من قبل ! ولماذا أزيلت من الاصل ؟ لأن ((أقدم)) المخطوطات لم يكن بها ذكر صعود المسيح إطلاقاً ، فقد كان زيفاً مشابهاً لما نقرأه عن الثالوث المقدس في رسالة يوحنا الأولى (5-7) والسؤال المطروح هنا هو: لماذا نتخلص من واحدة ونرجع الأخرى ؟ لا تندهشوا فربما تكون ((اللجنة)) قد قررت أن تتخلص من ((المقدمة)) كلها حتى إذا اشتريت النصوص المنقحة الآن لا تجدها فيها . فلقد فعلها قبلهم شهود يهوه الذين قاموا بالتخلص من سبع وعشرين صفحة من مقدمة عهدهم الجديد .
                                    قام القسيس سكوفيلد (بروفيسور علم اللاهوت) بمساعدة ثمانية استشاريين (جميعهم من أساتذة علم اللاهوت) بتهجئة كلمة (إله) العبرية والتي تعني الرب إلى(آله) في مرجع سكوفيلد للكتاب المقدس . ويبدو أن النصارى قد اعترفوا أخيراً بأن اسم الرب الصحيح هو الله ولكنهم – لصعوبة هذه الحقيقة عليهم – قاموا بكتابتها بـ ل واحدة . ولقد قمت بذكر ذلك في العديد من محاضراتي العامة وصدقوني بأن الطبعة التي تليها من مرجع سكوفيلد للكتاب المقدس حين أعيد طبعها كانت مطابقة تماماً للطبعة السابقة ولكنهم ((بشطارة)) وخفة يد استطاعوا أن يتخلصوا من كلمة (آله) فلم يبق لها اثر{ وما اصعب متابعة احتيالهم وخفة ايديهم}.
                                    (Ancient Copies) – المخطوطات القديمة (Most ancient copies) أقدم المخطوطات
                                    (ELAH) in Hebrew is (ALLAH), the word ALLAH in the Bible was (ALAH), in the latest SCOFIELD VERSION the word ALAH is now omitted…
                                    ALMAH is the word in Hebrew which always used in their version and not the word ((bethulah)) which means the virgin

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                                      • سالم
                                        عضو
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 652
                                        #85
                                        إنجيل يهوذا أحدث الأناجيل اكتشافاً زلزال.. يضرب العقيدة النصرانية

                                        منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
                                        http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t142748.html#post379378
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English: New Revised Standard Version ² ª - English: King James Version ² ª - English: American Standard Version - English: Basic English Bible - English: Darby Version - English: Douay-Rheims ² ª - English: Webster's Bible - English: Weymouth NT - English: World English Bible ² ª - English: Young's Literal Translation - Afrikaans 1953 † - Albanian † - Amharic NT - Arabic: Smith & Van Dyke † - Aramaic NT: Peshitta † - Armenian (Eastern): (Genesi Exodus Gospels) - Armenian (Western): NT - Basque (Navarro-Labourdin): NT - Breton Gospels - Bulgarian - Chamorro (Psalms Gospels Acts) - Chinese: NCV (Traditional) † - Chinese: Union (Simplified) † - Chinese: NCV (Simplified) † - Chinese: Union (Traditional) † - Coptic: Bohairic NT - Coptic: New Testament - Coptic: Sahidic NT - Croatian ² ª - Czech BKR † - Czech CEP † - Czech KMS † - Czech NKB † - Danish † - Dutch Staten Vertaling † - Esperanto † - Estonian † - Finnish: Bible (1776) † - Finnish: Pyhä Raamattu (1933/1938) † - Finnish: Pyhä - Raamattu (1992) † - French Jerusalem Bible ² ª - French: Darby - French: Louis Segond (1910) † - French: Martin (1744) - French: Ostervald (1996 revision) - Fulfulde (Ajamiya) - Georgian (Gospels Acts James) - German: Elberfelder (1871) † - German: Elberfelder (1905) † - German: Luther (1545) - German: Luther (1912) † - German: Schlachter (1951) † - Gothic (Nehemiah NT Portions) [Latin Script] - Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) † - Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) [Parsed] † - Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550/1894) † - Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550/1894) [Parsed] † - Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. † - Greek NT: Westcott/Hort - UBS4 variants † - Greek NT: Westcott/Hort - UBS4 variants [Parsed] † - Greek OT: LXX [A] Unaccented ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Accented ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Unaccented Roots & Parsing ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Accented Roots & Parsing ² ª - Greek: Modern † - Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only) † - Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants & Vowels) † - Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex † - Hebrew OT: Aleppo Codex † - Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only) - Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants & Vowels) - Hebrew: Modern - Hungarian: Karoli † - Icelandic - Italian: Giovanni Diodati Bible (1649) † - Italian: Riveduta Bible (1927) † - Japanese: JKUG - Kabyle: NT - Korean † - Latin: Nova Vulgata ² ª - Latin: Vulgata Clementina ² ª - Latvian New - Testament - Lithuanian † - Manx Gaelic (Esther Jonah Four Gospels) - Maori - Myanmar/Burmse: Judson (1835) - Norwegian: Det Norsk Bibelselskap (1930 - Portuguese: Almeida Atualizada † - Potawatomi: (Matthew Acts) (Lykins 1844) Romani NT: E Lashi Viasta (Gypsy) - Romanian: Cornilescu - Russian: Synodal Translation (1876) † - Russian: Makarij Translation (Pentateuch) (1825) † - Russian: Victor Zhuromsky NT † - Scots Gaelic (Gospel of Mark) - Spanish: La Biblia de las Américas - Spanish: Reina Valera (1909) † - Spanish: Reina - Valera NT (1858) † - Spanish: Sagradas Escrituras (1569) - Swahili NT † - Swedish (1917) - Tagalog: Ang Dating Biblia (1905) - Tamajaq Portions - Thai: from KJV † - Turkish - Turkish: NT (1987 1994) - Ukrainian: NT (P.Kulish 1871) - Uma NT † - Vietnamese (1934) † - Wolof NT - Xhosa † - Columbia Encyclopedia - Sixth Edition - American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language Fourth Edition - Roget's II: The New Thesaurus - Book of English Usage - Simpson's Contemporary Quotations - Oxford Shakespeare - Columbia World of Quotations - Columbia Gazetteer of North America - Encyclopedia of World - History - World's Orations - Bible - Bibles - BIBILE - BIBILES - Bible for Children - children - story - Bible - Bible Story - Bible stories - Sunday School - favorite - Jesus - Jesus Christ - God - kids - free downloads - Christian - free Bible - free story - free stories - free Bible stories - Arabic - Bulgarian - Chinese - Dutch - English - Finnish - French - German - Hindi - Icelandic - Indonesian - Japanese - Korean - Portuguese - Spanish - Swahili - Tagalog - Turkish - Ukrainian - agape - Alpha and Omega - angels - 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                                        101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible

                                        منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
                                        http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t142693.html#post379353
                                        منتديات أتباع المرسلين - الحوار الإسلامي النصراني - الرد على شبهات النصارى - تحريف الإنجيل - ألوهية المسيح - التثليث - الصلب والفداء - مريم المجدلية - بولس - توما - متا - لوقا - يوحنا - الروح القدس - يسوع - المسيح - الكتاب المقدس - صوتيات - مرئيات - مناظرات - أحمد ديدات - ديدات - الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات وسام - مناظرات بيبو - مناظرات حليمو - البالتوك - مسلمين جدد - كيف أسلم هؤلاء - قصص إسلام - شبهات وردود - أدلة تحريف الإنجيل - نصوص الإنجيل المحرفة - الاسفار القانونية - الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي - يسوع المسيح - يسوع - بن مريم - ابن مريم - الكنيسة العربية - زكريا بطرس - الرد على زكريا بطرس - منتديات الكنيسة - منتديات بن مريم - منتديات ابن مريم - الأب القمص زكريا بطرس - الموقع الرسمي لابونا زكريا بطرس - Ebn Maryam - ebnmaryam - Maryam - Mary - Deedat - Ahmed deedat - ahmed-deedat - Barsoom - Barsoomyat - Arabic bible - Arabic online bible - father zakaria - Arabic bible study - Arabic bible verse -Arabic bible gateway - Arabic school of bible study - 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French Jerusalem Bible ² ª - French: Darby - French: Louis Segond (1910) † - French: Martin (1744) - French: Ostervald (1996 revision) - Fulfulde (Ajamiya) - Georgian (Gospels Acts James) - German: Elberfelder (1871) † - German: Elberfelder (1905) † - German: Luther (1545) - German: Luther (1912) † - German: Schlachter (1951) † - Gothic (Nehemiah NT Portions) [Latin Script] - Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) † - Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) [Parsed] † - Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550/1894) † - Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550/1894) [Parsed] † - Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. † - Greek NT: Westcott/Hort - UBS4 variants † - Greek NT: Westcott/Hort - UBS4 variants [Parsed] † - Greek OT: LXX [A] Unaccented ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Accented ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Unaccented Roots & Parsing ² ª - Greek OT: LXX [A] Accented Roots & Parsing ² ª - Greek: Modern † - Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only) † - Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants & Vowels) † - Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex † - Hebrew OT: Aleppo Codex † - Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only) - Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants & Vowels) - Hebrew: Modern - Hungarian: Karoli † - Icelandic - Italian: Giovanni Diodati Bible (1649) † - Italian: Riveduta Bible (1927) † - Japanese: JKUG - Kabyle: NT - Korean † - Latin: Nova Vulgata ² ª - Latin: Vulgata Clementina ² ª - Latvian New - Testament - Lithuanian † - Manx Gaelic (Esther Jonah Four Gospels) - Maori - Myanmar/Burmse: Judson (1835) - Norwegian: Det Norsk Bibelselskap (1930 - Portuguese: Almeida Atualizada † - Potawatomi: (Matthew Acts) (Lykins 1844) Romani NT: E Lashi Viasta (Gypsy) - Romanian: Cornilescu - Russian: Synodal Translation (1876) † - Russian: Makarij Translation (Pentateuch) (1825) † - Russian: Victor Zhuromsky NT † - Scots Gaelic (Gospel of Mark) - Spanish: La Biblia de las Américas - Spanish: Reina Valera (1909) † - Spanish: Reina - Valera NT (1858) † - Spanish: Sagradas Escrituras (1569) - Swahili NT † - Swedish (1917) - Tagalog: Ang Dating Biblia (1905) - 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                                        Bible errors

                                        منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
                                        http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t142702.html
                                        منتديات أتباع المرسلين - الحوار الإسلامي النصراني - الرد على شبهات النصارى - تحريف الإنجيل - ألوهية المسيح - التثليث - الصلب والفداء - مريم المجدلية - بولس - توما - متا - لوقا - يوحنا - الروح القدس - يسوع - المسيح - الكتاب المقدس - صوتيات - مرئيات - مناظرات - أحمد ديدات - ديدات - الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات وسام - مناظرات بيبو - مناظرات حليمو - البالتوك - مسلمين جدد - كيف أسلم هؤلاء - قصص إسلام - شبهات وردود - أدلة تحريف الإنجيل - نصوص الإنجيل المحرفة - الاسفار القانونية - الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي - يسوع المسيح - يسوع - بن مريم - ابن مريم - الكنيسة العربية - زكريا بطرس - الرد على زكريا بطرس - منتديات الكنيسة - منتديات بن مريم - منتديات ابن مريم - الأب القمص زكريا بطرس - الموقع الرسمي لابونا زكريا بطرس - Ebn Maryam - ebnmaryam - Maryam - Mary - Deedat - Ahmed deedat - ahmed-deedat - Barsoom - Barsoomyat - Arabic bible - Arabic online bible - father zakaria - Arabic bible study - Arabic bible verse -Arabic bible gateway - Arabic school of bible study - 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                                          Comment

                                          • سالم
                                            عضو
                                            • Dec 2008
                                            • 652
                                            #86
                                            مثال على تحريف الكتاب المقدس


                                            نسخة الملك جيمس نسخة الملك جيمس مختلف عليها بين الطوائف الكاثوليكية والبروتستانتية
                                            فقد أصدر الكاثوليك نسخة لاتينية خاصة بهم تسمى نسخة " دوي " وطبعت لأول مرة عام 1582م ثم 1609م ، وتختلف هذه النسخة عن نسخة الملك جيمس المعاصرة لها في أمور أهمها زيادة سبعة من الأسفار ( الأبوكريفا ) غير موجودة في ترجمة الملك جيمس البروتستانتية . وما نقلناه هو من موقع المكتبة اليهودية وذلك باشارة الي ان نسخ الكتاب المقدس تم تحريفها و من بين التحريف هو مثال حذف اسم جد النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم هاشم في النسخ الاخرى للكتاب المقدس


                                            نسخ الكتاب المقدس متعددة , ومختلفة وادناه قائمة لبعضها



                                            ========

                                            هل هو جد النبي هاشم مذكور في الكتاب المقدس أشعياء 21

                                            منتديات أتباع المرسلين الإسلامية
                                            http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t134308.html
                                            منتديات أتباع المرسلين - الحوار الإسلامي النصراني - الرد على شبهات النصارى - تحريف الإنجيل - ألوهية المسيح - التثليث - الصلب والفداء - مريم المجدلية - بولس - توما - متا - لوقا - يوحنا - الروح القدس - يسوع - المسيح - الكتاب المقدس - صوتيات - مرئيات - مناظرات - أحمد ديدات - ديدات - الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات الشيخ أحمد ديدات - مناظرات وسام - مناظرات بيبو - مناظرات حليمو - البالتوك - مسلمين جدد - كيف أسلم هؤلاء - قصص إسلام - شبهات وردود - أدلة تحريف الإنجيل - نصوص الإنجيل المحرفة - الاسفار القانونية - الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي - يسوع المسيح - يسوع - بن مريم - ابن مريم - الكنيسة العربية - زكريا بطرس - الرد على زكريا بطرس - منتديات الكنيسة - منتديات بن مريم - منتديات ابن مريم - الأب القمص زكريا بطرس - الموقع الرسمي لابونا زكريا بطرس - Ebn Maryam - ebnmaryam - Maryam - Mary - Deedat - Ahmed deedat - ahmed-deedat - Barsoom - Barsoomyat - Arabic bible - Arabic online bible - father zakaria - Arabic bible study - Arabic bible verse -Arabic bible gateway - 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                                              Comment

                                              • سالم
                                                عضو
                                                • Dec 2008
                                                • 652
                                                #87
                                                المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا مشاهدة المشاركة
                                                نحن تجاوزنا هذه المرحلة يا اخ لماذا تشغل نفسك رايك وصل فلا تكرره لنتقدم في الموضوع براي جديد ... انت تقول ما تعتقده وانا بين يدي نسخة من القران حذفت منها كل ايات الجهاد وحوالي نصف سورة التوبة ووجدت عديد المسلمين مهتمين بها ويطالعونها ؟ ماذا نسمي هذا ؟ مجرّد مزاح؟ انها مسالة في غاية الأهمية ...
                                                انت ابديت ما بدى لك عقليا وشكرناك ...


                                                نريد ان تضعي اسم ناشر النسخة التي عندك
                                                وعنوانه

                                                و اسم المكتبة التي اشتريت منها النسخة و عنوانها


                                                وهل يوجد في النسخة التي لديك ختم باسماء لجنة التي راجعت المصحف سواء من الازهر او لجنة كبار العلماء في السعودية
                                                Last edited by سالم; 03-06-2010, 06:51 PM.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • ودالشيخ[بناوي]
                                                    عضو
                                                    • Mar 2010
                                                    • 21
                                                    #88
                                                    سبحان الله!!!
                                                    دينا تقتنع بتحريف التوراة والانجيل تماما!!!
                                                    [والحمد لله على ذلك]
                                                    وتبحث في تثبيت تحريف القرآن الكريم!!!!
                                                    عجبا امرها!!!
                                                    افصحي عما بداخلك بكل شجاعة..
                                                    ما لكم كيف تحكمون!!!
                                                    Last edited by ودالشيخ[بناوي]; 03-06-2010, 10:11 PM.
                                                    يا ابن آدم عندما تولد يؤذن في اذنك من غير صلاه و عند موتك يصلى عليك من غير آذان فكأن حياتك هو الوقت بين الآذان و الصلاه فلا تقضيها فيما لا ينفع

                                                      Comment

                                                      • دنيا
                                                        عضو
                                                        • Jan 2010
                                                        • 193
                                                        #89
                                                        ما رايك انت في المسألة ؟
                                                        سألنا عن كيفية الحفظ فرد الزملاء الأعضاء انه بالتواتر ... انتهى الأمر
                                                        سألنا لماذا يحفظ كلام الله في القران ولا يحفظ في التوراة فهل لك راي في ذلك؟

                                                          Comment

                                                          • عبد الغفور
                                                            عضو
                                                            • Sep 2009
                                                            • 646
                                                            #90
                                                            المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة دنيا مشاهدة المشاركة
                                                            ما رايك انت في المسألة ؟
                                                            سألنا عن كيفية الحفظ فرد الزملاء الأعضاء انه بالتواتر ... انتهى الأمر
                                                            سألنا لماذا يحفظ كلام الله في القران ولا يحفظ في التوراة فهل لك راي في ذلك؟
                                                            أنت كمسلمة لو سألك شخص غير مسلم مثل هذا السؤال بماذا ستجيبينه ؟!
                                                            " أَفَمَنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَى تَقْوَى مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانٍ خَيْرٌ أَمْ مَنْ أَسَّسَ بُنْيَانَهُ عَلَى شَفَا جُرُفٍ هَارٍ فَانْهَارَ بِهِ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ وَاللَّهُ لا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ "


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